The WBAA:
Given the prosperity of Cartoon Network and the transformation
of an all-action Kids' WB, do you see CN as a more promising home to future
projects?
Paul Dini:
"It depends. I know [Cartoon Network] is very much behind Justice League.
They do have their on slate of things they develop there. I'd say Cartoon
Network is trying to diversify as far as some of their adult programming that
they put on Adult Swim recently. They are actively trying to get more than
just the kiddie crowd. ...You've got adults and teenagers watching Tom and
Jerry at 11, [so] you're going to have an audience for new programming. FOX
locally is running 'The Simpsons' at 11, so why not try to get that young
audience too? They might not watch a talk show, but they'll watch something
funny, they'll watch something a little more extreme. Kids' WB, is experimenting
a little in there and I think that's exciting. That opens up a whole new place,
potentially, to put new shows. So I can't say whether or not eventually I'd
be involved in something like that, but as a fan of animation I'd be checking
out to see what they're running. I talked to some of the folks over there
recently, and they are interested in keeping a primary focused on kids, but
they're also interested in diversifying a little. It remains to be seen what
they'll put in to development next year."
"I'll talk to people at one network, and they'll say, 'Yeah, we're going
to do nothing but action and adventure programing next year,' and suddenly
you have disaster like September 11. Suddenly it's 'Well I think we're just
going to run some more kids game shows this year'. Until there is anything
definite, I don't think I can give you any sort of an answer on that."
The WBAA:
How do feel that September 11 could effect Warner Bros.
Animation in terms of censorship?
Paul Dini:
"I think it will make a lot of the executives way more cautious about
what they put on TV, not [for] the fact that it's 'imitatable violence' for
the audience watching. It's just that they don't want to horrify children
any more than they've already been upset or confused or scared by what's happened
already. So I think there has been a big reaction in cartoons, in general,
over the past three weeks to look at the content of what's coming out and
make changes accordingly. I know that's frustrated a lot of people on different
action adventure shows. They have to go over things and pull out explosions
and all hints at the word 'terrorist'. I think that on one hand you don't
want to scare kids, but on the other hand, how long are you going to bury
your head in the sand and pretend that these situations don't exist. I think
they have to have sensitivity on both sides. You don't want to exploit a bad
situation just for shock value to give your ratings a little boost. The terrorists
aren't the ones watching Saturday morning cartoons. You don't want to water
things down so there's no point and call yourself an action adventure show
when you can't show anything. And to some degree kids need to see their demons
purged. Not necessarily an entire race or religion, but there are villains,
there are evil people. There are evil people in cartoons. You don't want to
shy away from that because kids need heroes and they need to see their heroes
vanquish evil in whatever form it takes."
The WBAA:
How do feel about the Return of the Joker edits? Do
you feel that they have merit, that they were justified?
Paul Dini:
"I don't think anyone was pleased with them, myself included. I thought
it was unfortunate, and unfortunate it had that reaction. It upset me for
a number of reasons because we just had done our job. When we started production
two years ago we were given the freedom to write the Batman movie you guys
always wanted to do. If they thought it was too strong, I certainly would
have rather heard of it at the time. If I'd turned the script in and they'd
said 'It's too extreme here, you can't have a kid shooting a villain' I would
have listened to it at the time. But when it happened at the eleventh hour
when everything was ready to be shipped overseas and then we had to go in
and change it, it wasn't doing anyone any favors... It wasn't promoted, it
kind of leaked out on the shelves and it was not what anybody wanted. There
was a big overreaction."
" It was a powerful story. As far as the level of violence, it's pretty much in line with what DC Comics is publishing. It's the same sort of intensity there, and we thought we could at least do that in the video. But I was hurt by it professionally and it did no favors because they lost the window of release, it wasn't reviewed or held up to any response positive or negative. I think it sold only fairly well. And part of that, they were saying 'Commercials, what the hell, we're going to put one here and there. We're going to do an MTV video. We're going to do this and that. We're going to have a huge opening.' In the end everyone got scared and it did poorly. I think it's unfortunate that everyone got scared and ran away from it."
The WBAA:
Do you think you have more creative freedom in a teenage
demographic?
Paul Dini:
"There's an audience for it. One is never completely free of the attitude
of cartoons in America, that it really is for kids. It doesn't matter if you
have an R-rated movie and advertise it and say, 'This is extreme stuff with
extreme dialogue for teens.' Someone is always going to be complaining, 'Well,
it's a cartoon - It's for kids,' where as in Japan, apparently they don't
have that problem (at least not as much). Without a doubt there would be more
freedom in something like that."
The WBAA:
The Mad Hatter asks: If logistics were no object, what
character would you like to reinvent for the 21 century, like you did for
Batman in the nineties?
Paul Dini:
"I don't know, It's hard to say. There are a lot of characters I love
a lot that I'd love to take a shot at. I love the old Looney tunes characters,
I love some of the old Disney characters too. If I was not hampered by any
sort of restriction, then I think some of the classic Looney tunes, the classic
Disney characters I'd love to take a shot at. Superheroes I love, but I've
done a lot of them. I actually have had offers from comic book companies to
come in and take over whole runs of books with some of the best known characters.
I think that's very flattering but I just feel like I'm moving into a new
direction in my career where I'd rather concentrate on characters I create
myself, or different types of writing. I love comics, I will probably always
be connected to them to some degree or another. But as far as settling down
and [working] on a well established character, I don't see it happening anytime
soon. I am going to release a graphic novel and some issues of the Zantana
series for DC. That's a character I've always sort of liked a lot, and I've
had a lot of fun writing that. That's something I said I'd do a while back
and I'm looking forward to doing. But other than that I don't see working
on any other established characters right now."
"As far as fiction writers go, when I was growing up in college I loved Flanery O'Connor. Steinbeck I still love because I grew up in central California, the area between San Fransisco and Monterey. If you grow up in that area, you have to read Steinbeck. Hemingway I loved too, slightly less than Steinbeck. James Thurber, I thought was an incredible writer. I read a lot of Sam Shepard, Tom Stromberg. When I was in college I was a drama student and a creative writing student. So I just read every play I could get my hands on."
"Of course, I read a lot of comics too. I started reading more comics when I was in college because my roommate managed a comic book store in Cambridge. He had a huge collection of old Jack Kirbys ...I read all the Carl Barks 'Uncle Scrooge' stuff that I thought was just terrific. Whatever amused me I'd pick up and read."
His fans may not know that Paul Dini also has interests in natural history. He studied zoology, and admits that if it weren't for his math skills he'd have pursued it as a career. He enjoys wildlife photography and collects bones, skins and other forms of artwork.
The WBAA:
Gookie asks: What kind of books do you enjoy reading?
Do you have a favorite book or author?
The WBAA:
What lead you to choose a writing career in television,
as opposed to any other medium?
Paul Dini:
"I got into television at the early age of 21. I was drawing cartoons
for a college newspaper, and I met a producer at Filmation. He liked my cartoons,
and I'm a terrible artist. But he liked the writing in them. He said, 'Why
don't you take a shot at writing some of this stuff.' I came out to LA in
about 83 or 84 ...and went up and worked for George Lucas at Lucasfilm in
the mid eighties. It was something I latched onto early on I always liked
it. As it worked out, after working with Lucas I'd gotten to know some of
the folks [with] Speilberg who said 'We're going to do a show called Tiny
Toons.' There were some friends I knew from animation who were going to be
working on the show, so I sort of eased into that and then into Batman."
The WBAA:
With the absence of talents like Jean MacCurdy (former
president of WB Animation) , Tom Ruegger (Animaniacs), where do you feel WB
Animation is headed?
Paul Dini:
"I definitely feel it's headed down a different path. It's few people
from the early days are here. Bruce Timm and myself are the only people who
are here since the place first started. I came on in mid '89, I think Bruce
predated me by a couple of months because he was working on the storyboards
for Tiny Toons. Even now, I just come and go. I'm just back doing development
and writing scripts for a couple shows. Tom left last year, we all miss him.
He's off doing some other things. Tom Minton has been here for a big chunk
of the long run. And of course, Jean MacCurdy, who we miss most of all because
she was the one who really kept the place going. She was very visionary as
far as assigning people to shows that she thought they could really make a
positive contribution to. Where it's going, I really can't say. It's changing,
hopefully for the better. It'll be about a year or two before we see how we've
done as far as TV shows and feature films, stuff like that."
The WBAA:
How do you feel about people taking your work and sort
of running with it? For instance, Karl Kessel on Harley Quinn?
Paul Dini:
"I think he's done a pretty good job on that. I don't read every issue,
but you know, I think he definitely latched on to what the spirit of the character
is and added a little of his own. So that's a good thing. She's sort of a
communal character now. The door is open if I wanted to go back and say I
want to do a special project with Harley. I think people are agreeable to
that. But after working with her for 8 years in animation... I almost feel
like I'd like to see someone else take a shot at her."
The WBAA:
Vince asks: Do you consider Batman Beyond the future
of B:TAS or "Elseworlds"?
Paul Dini:
"I think of it as Elseworlds. I don't want to be tied to one particular
thing. If I had to put it in purely fans' terms, I'd have to say it's Elseworlds.
I like to leave to door open so you can go back and do things with our standard
batman character. I'm not a big fan of continuity. Whenever I'm doing a show,
I define continuity for the love of that particular show. So Batman, Batman
and Robin...the new look in '97 [I see] as one complete thing. I look at Batman
Beyond as a probable future for that to happen. On the other hand I'd like
to leave the door open to go back and restart old batman animated show and
take up new stories and not having the characters stop and say, 'hey that
conflicts with what we did with Killer Croc when he said this.' I'd rather
not be held to that. I like continuity to a degree, but I also like playing
loose."
Presently, Paul Dini is working on development at Warner Bros. He keeps quiet about most of the projects, but the new ideas range from classic Looney Tunes projects to DC Superheroes. WB's goal is to maximize these assets, and Dini is involved in developing several classic characters. The studio is also looking at several new Direct to Video projects that "again, are all over the place," including a soon to be released Tom and Jerry video and more Bugs Bunny. "Alan Burnett and I have worked on some new Batman Direct to Videos," Dini told the Archive. "We wrote scripts for two of them and have no idea when [Warner Bros.] is going to proceed and put them into production. We will make an announcement as soon as those get a little more real."
When asked who'd be involved, Dini replied, "It's hard to say who would be the art team because most of the art team that worked on 'Batman' is working on Justice League. There are some people we've looked at as far as directing and storyboarding, but you know, they'd all be jazzed about doing it again but for now it's in that wonderful development center where nothings going on until someone says 'Yes, go ahead and make things', we're not going to worry about that. But I think if we would be able to pull it off, it'd be terrific"
The WB Animation Archive thanks Paul Dini for his time!
Interview by Archie in October 2001